Just musings, is all

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 1, 2019 at 5:44 pm

Paul Plante says :

And let me say as a grandfather of young women who are being taught to think for themselves so as to not get caught up in the emotional hysteria being peddled by this 16-year old spoiled rich girl from Sweden who throws temper tantrums and is using emotional blackmail to force, yes, force, adults to do her bidding, that if this thread had stayed on Greta Thunberg and her hysteria, and her temper tantrums, and her emotional blackmail, especially, I would have given it a much more sympathetic reading, and I would have recommended it to the world.

I would have started with an AFP article entitled “CO2 row over climate activist Thunberg’s yacht trip to New York” on 18 August 2019, where we were provided as follows:

Thunberg has become a figurehead for climate action with her stark warnings of catastrophe if the world does not act now to cut carbon emissions and curb global warming.

She has received criticism and abuse for her uncompromising attitude, but shows little concern at how she might be received among climate change deniers in the United States.

“I will just ignore them because I’m only acting and communicating the science, and if they don’t like that, what have I got to do with that?” she said.

end quotes

A 16-year old girl from Sweden is “communicating the science?”

Oh, really, Greta, do tell.

So, Greta, where is it?

The science, I mean!

What “science” are you communicating Greta?

That the world will end in ten years if we do not all stop using fossil fuels right now?

But that is not “science” that she is communicating there, people – that is mindless hysteria and gibbering.

And Greta, you seriously would give yourself a whole lot more credibility in the eyes of ADULTS who are immune to your emotional blackmail spiel about how “if we really loved our children, we would be doing exactly what you tell us to do,” by giving us a lot more detail to support your stark warnings of catastrophe if the world does not act now to cut carbon emissions and curb global warming.

But what am I saying – she can’t do that, because she personally has no science to communicate, so stop the FRAUD, Greta, and stop scaring the children.

This grandfather does not appreciate it.

And Greta, I am not a science denier, which means I recognize bogus “science” like yours when I see it, so don’t try to write me off by labeling me as such, thank you very much, and welcome to America and have a nice stay in America where we are not so ignorant as to be swept away by your teenage hysteria.

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 2, 2019 at 6:16 pm

Paul Plante says:

And while we are on the subject of Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old Swedish “activist” who began holding solitary demonstrations outside the Swedish parliament last year, and who is now the star of her own movie filmed aboard her high-tech racing yacht Malizia II largely made of lightweight, high strength, CARBON FIBER material for a bit of necessary surrealism there, as she crossed the Atlantic Ocean from Sweden to New York City to “communicate the science,” an absurd concept in and of itself, given that true “science” is available and accessible to anyone and everyone who bothers to pull their heads out of their ***** to learn something about what they are a part of, so as to be better able to adapt to changing times, because the world is dynamic, not static, so that it does not require a 16-year old girl from Sweden to “communicate” it as if we were all morons waiting for here to enlighten us, let's go to a MARKETWATCH article entitled “Students around the world skip class to organize climate change protests” by Associated Press published March 15, 2019, where we have as follows from Greta, who appears to have some very serious psychological issues, as follows:

Thunberg, who was recently nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, was cheered for her blunt message at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland this year, when she told government and business leaders: “I want you to panic.”

“I want you to feel the fear I feel every day.”

end quotes

And there is where it all goes south for me in a hurry with respect to Greta Thunberg, this weird concept that because she feels fear everyday, which is a sign she is suffering some mental derangement that can hopefully be cured with counseling and therapy as opposed to drugs, I and every other adult are supposed to “panic.”

I don’t know about anybody else out there, but I don’t do panic on demand because some 16-year old girl from Sweden feels fear every day, and I am surprised one that a 16 year-old girl in Sweden, an advanced nation, would have anything to feel fear about on a daily basis, and two, that a 16-year old girl would be ignorant enough to think that we should all feel panic because she is afraid.

If she feels fear everyday, and as a result, she wants us all to panic, i.e. feel sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety accompanied by wildly unthinking behavior, with such synonyms as alarm, anxiety, nervousness, fear, fright, trepidation, dread, terror, horror, agitation, consternation, perturbation, dismay, disquiet, apprehension, apprehensiveness, then what she is communicating is not science, but plain old garden-variety hysteria, instead.

And as an adult who is a grandfather, I fail to see any benefit to anyone accruing from all the adults in America panicking because Greta Thunberg of Sweden feels irrational fear everyday that the world is going to end in ten years unless we all stop using carbon, immediately, including Greta Thunberg, and on that note, for all the children out there who want their parents to show their love to them by going totally carbon-free, simply throw away their car keys and go down to the basement and find the breaker box and throw the main switch to turn off all the power coming into the house, and if you use gas for heat and cooking, then shut it off where it enters the house, and if you have a gas grill, turn that off, as well, and that should be a good start, anyway.

And if you wonder then how you will eat and stay warm, ask Greta the science-communicator with all the answers, because I haven’t a clue!

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 8, 2019 at 5:48 pm

Paul Plante says :

Whether or not the “child” is brain-washed remains a matter of conjecture, but the picture is meant to be disturbing.

If that picture is 16-year old Greta Thunberg from Sweden, who just made a movie about herself starring herself as a modern-day heroine sailing the mighty Atlantic Ocean in her hi-tech, carbon fibre racing yacht that only the richest of us can afford to battle “climate change” by “communicating the science,” and who was cheered for her blunt message at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland this year, when she told government and business leaders: “I want you to panic, I want you to feel the fear I feel every day,” I would say that she obviously has some serious issues like persistent paranoia she needs to confront if she thinks adults should panic because she feels “fear” every day.

Surprisingly, very few adults have stepped up to the plate to inform this hysterical and possibly manipulative 16-year old that they don’t do panic just because a 16-year old girl is demanding it of them, or she will hold her breath and turn blue in the face and throw herself down on the ground in a fierce temper tantrum if she doesn’t get her way, as we adults can see from a TWITTER post she made on 23 December 2018, where she TWEETED to her TWIBE of TWITTERATI, as follows:

“We have to understand the emergency of the situation.”

“Our leadership has failed us.”

“Young people must hold older generations accountable for the mess they have created.”

“We need to get angry, and transform that anger into action.”

end quotes

Now, is that a girl who is brain-washed?

Or is that a manipulative girl trying to brain-wash others?

For example, her statement “We have to understand the emergency of the situation.”

Okay, Greta, I’m on, so explain it to me.

But she can’t, because that statement is nothing more than a soundbite to scare ignorant children who can’t read and so, have to get their news and what it is they are supposed to think and say if they want to be popular, from TWEETS on TWITTER.

As to scaring children, on 13 December 2018, young, frightened Greta, and let me say here that I am a grandfather with granddaughters who are not scared every day, because they have been taught from young to think for themselves, had this to say to the world, to wit:

“We are about to sacrifice our civilization for the opportunity of a very small number of people to continue to make enormous amounts of money.”

“But it is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few.”

“You say that you love your children above everything else.”

“And yet you are stealing their future.”

end quotes

Well, Greta, let me say as a grandfather here in America that I love my children and my grandchildren, and I and their parents are not “stealing” their future as you accuse us of doing, with no evidence whatsoever to support your thesis; to the contrary, their parents are providing a future for them by teaching them responsibility and discipline and critical thinking, and by feeding them, and by putting a roof over their heads and clothes on their backs, which is why I am standing up in here to tell you, Greta, to stop lying to them and trying to make them hysterical so they can’t think straight, so you can make them your tools, which takes us to this from our Greta, who has the luxury of a very expensive high-tech, carbon-fiber racing yacht only the very wealthy can afford, which is a whiff of hypocrisy on her part, as follows:

“We cannot solve a crisis without treating it as a crisis.”

“And if solutions within the system are so impossible to find, then maybe we should change the system itself?”

“We have not come here to beg world leaders to care.”

“You have ignored us in the past and you will ignore us again.”

“You’ve run out of excuses and we’re running out of time.”

“We’ve come here to let you know that change is coming, whether you like it or not.”

“The real power belongs to the people.”

end quotes

Yes, Greta, it does, and I am one of them, and Greta, I am calling your cards!

Put your facts, not your empty TWEET soundbites, on the table and show us what this “crisis” really is, because we adults who love our children and who don’t ignore them would truly like to know.

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 9, 2019 at 9:37 pm

Paul Plante says:

Before it is anything else, and this would be whether or not humans existed or didn’t exist, or used fossil fuels or not; the earth’s atmosphere is what is known as a “thermodynamic engine,” and because it is, it is never at rest and always in motion, which is why we here on earth, as opposed to Mars or Venus, have both weather and climate.

And at the same time as that engine is running, there is also what is known as a natural “carbon cycle,” and carbon dioxide is a natural part of that carbon cycle.

The models, because computers are limited in how many variables they can handle, always a limitation of models of complex systems like the atmosphere, are therefore forced to make a lot of assumptions which are exactly that – assumptions.

If this, then this.

The models assume that when carbon dioxide is put into the atmosphere, that it simply stays there, which is not at all accurate or true.

As carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere change, so does water vapor content which has been linked to changes in carbon dioxide levels, so that increasing carbon dioxide levels will result in more rainfall, which removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

It needs to be remembered that carbon is an element, and thus, it is finite.

The human body, for example, is made up of carbon to the extent that each of us is about 18 percent carbon by weight, so that if the average human weight is around 120 pounds, there are about 21.6 pounds of carbon stored in the average person, which makes that carbon inaccessible for other combinations.

Thus, the more people on earth, the more carbon is fixed in them, and thus is unavailable elsewhere.

All of this is part of the carbon cycle, which is not at all accounted for in all these climate change models, of which there are some 65 or so different and competing ones, I believe, so which do you believe?

And the models assume that we will keep pouring carbon dioxide into the air at the same rate, which is not true, because every day, people are changing their habits and are getting away from fossil fuels, or minimizing their use of same, because the future as always belongs to the efficient.

I am a graduate level engineer who has been studying this subject for some time now, since 1975, actually, and frankly, I don’t believe these projections that are being used to scare people with.

And I have been where I am since 1949, and yes, in that time, the climate, WHERE I AM, has changed quite a bit.

And that is past tense – it has changed, and all the king’s horses and all the king’s men can’t make it go back to what it used to be.

And it is truly just plain stupid to think that we can go cold-turkey on fossil fuels in ten years without chaos ensuing.

So it seems the rock and the hard place, doesn’t it!

As to the “science,” NASA put out a paper on the subject of “The Carbon Cycle” by Holli Riebeek on June 16, 2011, wherein was stated as follows:

Many of the questions scientists still need to answer about the carbon cycle revolve around how it is changing.

The atmosphere now contains more carbon than at any time in at least two million years.

Each reservoir of the cycle will change as this carbon makes its way through the cycle.

What will those changes look like?

What will happen to plants as temperatures increase and climate changes?

Will they remove more carbon from the atmosphere than they put back?

Will they become less productive?

How much extra carbon will melting permafrost put into the atmosphere, and how much will that amplify warming?

Will ocean circulation or warming change the rate at which the ocean takes up carbon?

Will ocean life become less productive?

How much will the ocean acidify, and what effects will that have?

All of these measurements will help us see how the global carbon cycle is changing through time.

They will help us gauge the impact we are having on the carbon cycle by releasing carbon into the atmosphere or finding ways to store it elsewhere.

They will show us how our changing climate is altering the carbon cycle, and how the changing carbon cycle is altering our climate.

Most of us, however, will observe changes in the carbon cycle in a more personal way.

For us, the carbon cycle is the food we eat, the electricity in our homes, the gas in our cars, and the weather over our heads.

We are a part of the carbon cycle, and so our decisions about how we live ripple across the cycle.

Likewise, changes in the carbon cycle will impact the way we live.

As each of us come to understand our role in the carbon cycle, the knowledge empowers us to control our personal impact and to understand the changes we are seeing in the world around us.

end quotes

Works for me, anyway.

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 9, 2019 at 10:58 pm

Paul Plante says :

And Sorin Varzaru, I am curious as to why you seem to think it is necessary to get anyone’s permission to change your own habits and to reduce your carbon footprint, which puts money back in your pocket, because carbon tax or not, when you buy oil or gas or propane or natural gas, you are already paying a carbon tax, since all of those fuels have carbon in them.

Why do you need someone else’s permission to produce your own energy from solar cells, which so many smart people in this country are now doing?

Why do you need someone else’s permission to drive an electric car?

And as to electric cars, the Porsche Taykan is putting out some 600 horsepower and can leave the retro-Dodge Challenger in its dust.

I had a 1969 Camaro Z-28 back in the day and when the Oil Embargo was on back in the 1970s and the price of gas (carbon) went up, the gas-guzzling Camaro went on the block and I bought a much-more efficient Toyota, and my manhood quotient did not suffer as a result, proving wrong that old adage that you can’t be a man if you don’t ride a Harley-Davidson like me.

Of course you can.

So if you believe the climate where you are is changing, because there is not one “earth climate,” there are climatic zones, all with different conditions, and you want to do something about it, then do it.

Cut back; be efficient.

And if your neighbors don’t like it, so what?

Do you have to live extravagant because your neighbors do?

Seems silly to me, anyway.

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 10, 2019 at 10:19 pm

Paul Plante says :

Sorin, several things here.

First of all, life is not static and without waiting to be told what to do by Greta Thunberg and AOC, people are planting trees, and putting up solar panels, and reducing their carbon footprints all the time.

But I am most curious about your statement above where you say “The other would be do what the ‘other side’ is asking.”

Who exactly is “the other side?”

And why do you think there are only two sides here, presumably Wayne Creed’s side, which I am not in total agreement with, and AOC and Greta Thunberg’s side, which is based on hysteria, which I am not in agreement with, at all, which seems to make at least three sides in this debate, not just two?

And for the record, I drive a very basic Toyota 4-wheel drive truck with a 4-cylinder engine, and while I used to ride motorcycles, I didn’t ride a Harley, and all these years later, I can say that my manhood did not suffer as a result.

As to Greta Thunberg’s side, it was made clear on her Facebook page on 15 June 2019, as follows:

Around the year 2030, we will be in a position where we probably set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control, that will most likely lead to the end of our civilization as we know it.

That is unless in that time, permanent and unprecedented changes in all aspects of industrialized society have taken place.

Including a reduction of our CO2 emissions by at least 50%.

And please note that these calculations are depending on inventions that have not yet been invented at scale.

Furthermore these scientific calculations do not include most unforeseen tipping points and feed back loops.

Nor do these calculations include already locked in warming hidden by toxic air pollution.

Nor the aspect of equity, which is absolutely necessary to make the Paris Agreement work on a global scale.

And these calculations are not opinions or wild guesses.

These projections are backed up by scientific facts, concluded by all nations through the IPCC.

So if we are to stay below the 1,5 degrees of warming limit, which is still possible within the laws of physics, we need to change almost everything.

We need to start living within the planetary boundaries.

This will be a drastic change for many, but not for most.

end quotes

In all seriousness, Sorin, can you make sense out of anything she is saying there?

Let’s start with this:

“Around the year 2030, we will be in a position where we probably set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control, that will most likely lead to the end of our civilization as we know it.”

As an adult, as a grandfather, and as a graduate level engineer, quite frankly, Sorin, I think that young woman is quite out of her mind.

Where is there any evidence to support a thesis that around the year 2030, we will probably set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control, that will most likely lead to the end of our civilization as we know it?

What is the irreversible chain reaction that we are going to set off?

And as to the end of our civilization, exactly what is she talking about, given that in the 70+ years I have been on the globe, I have seen several “ends” to our previous “civilization,” all of which has been replaced by something new and different.

History itself is chock full of “civilizations” that have come to an end, many through environmental changes, only to be replaced by new civilizations.

So what do you think might be different this time around?

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 13, 2019 at 9:15 pm

Paul Plante says :

I just heard this young “climate activist” Greta Thunberg, who was across from our White House in Washington. D.C. as she gets ready to do something we common American citizens don’t have an opportunity to do, which is to address our Congress, on the news telling us American people that we have a moral responsibility to her, a scared 16-year old girl from Sweden, who wants us all to feel panic, because she feels fear every day, to go back to a cave-man type of existence so we don’t steal her future from her, so this spoiled little rich girl from Sweden who doesn’t have a clue as to what she is talking about obviously has a lot of clout in this country, as we can see from a Washington Examiner entitled “Democrats invite teen climate change activist Greta Thunberg to testify before Congress” by Josh Siegel on September 12, 2019, where we have as follows:

Swedish climate change activist Greta Thunberg, 16, is testifying before Congress next week at the invitation of House Democrats.

Thunberg will appear Sept. 18 before a joint hearing of a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee and the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis.

She is among a group of young climate activists Democrats invited to testify at the hearing, entitled “Voices Leading the Next Generation on the Global Climate Crisis.”

end quotes

Being clueless themselves, and devoid of knowledge and ideas, and being political opportunists wishing to milk this “climate change crisis” for all it is worth, even if it means exploiting and manipulating children which they shamelessly do, the Democrats are going to stage another of their media extravaganzas where they will have scared children like Greta Thunberg come before the cameras to tell lies to other children to scare them too, all to score cheap political points for the Democrats.

Getting back to that Washington Examiner article, we have more on young Ms. Thunberg as follows:

Thunberg is best known for founding an international movement called Fridays for Future, in which students skip school on Fridays to participate in demonstrations demanding action to combat climate change.

Last month she traveled across the Atlantic Ocean in an emissions-free solar-powered boat, instead of flying, to New York City ahead of her speech on Sept. 23 at the United Nations Climate Action Summit.

end quotes

Young Greta, who has been nominated for a Nobel Prize, was herself the subject of an article in the NEW YORKER entitled “The Fifteen-Year-Old Climate Activist Who Is Demanding a New Kind of Politics” by Masha Gessen on October 2, 2018, where we learned about her, as follows:

Sometimes the world makes so little sense that the only thing to do is engage in civil disobedience — even in a country as attached to its rules and regulations as Sweden is.

Fifteen-year-old Greta Thunberg has been protesting for more than a month.

Before the country’s parliamentary election on September 9th, she went on strike and sat on the steps of the parliament building, in Stockholm, every day during school hours for three weeks.

Since the election, she has returned to school for four days a week; she now spends her Fridays on the steps of parliament.

She is demanding that the government undertake a radical response to climate change.

Thunberg’s parents are Svante Thunberg, an actor, and Malena Ernman, a very well-known opera singer.

Ernman has published a book in which she described her family’s struggle with her two daughters’ special needs: both Greta and her younger sister, Beata, have been diagnosed with autism, A.D.H.D., and other conditions.

end quotes

This is the little girl the Democrats have invited to appear before our Congress to tell our Congress what it is we American people have to do to please this troubled little girl with some serious issues, and I for one, am refusing to dance to the tune she wishes to call, which takes us back to the NEW YORKER, as follows, as to how Greta Thunberg became the leading voice in the world for climate change, to wit:

In part because of her mother’s fame and the publicity that surrounded the publication of her book, Greta’s protest serves a dual purpose.

It not only calls attention to climate policy, as she intended, but it also showcases the political potential of neurological difference.

“I see the world a bit different, from another perspective,” she explained to me, in English.

“I have a special interest.”

“It’s very common that people on the autism spectrum have a special interest.”

Thunberg developed her special interest in climate change when she was nine years old and in the third grade.

“They were always talking about how we should turn off lights, save water, not throw out food,” she told me.

“I asked why and they explained about climate change.”

“And I thought this was very strange.”

“If humans could really change the climate, everyone would be talking about it and people wouldn’t be talking about anything else.”

“But this wasn’t happening.”

end quote

That’s it, people – when she was nine years old, Greta Thunberg heard people saying the sky could fall, which she took to mean it was really falling, and since nobody but her seemed concerned that the sky was falling, she appointed herself as our savior, and now, she is going to appear before the Democrats in Congress as an expert on the subject, which takes us back to the Washington Examiner article, to wit:

“We’re at the point where an entire generation has grown up in the climate crisis,” said Democratic Rep. Kathy Castor of Florida, chairwoman of the Select Climate Crisis Committee.

“They know the science, they know the stakes and they know how to rise to the challenge.”

“We need to rise with them.”

end quotes

Except that is not at all true that they know the science, because they don’t.

Greta Thunberg no more knows the “science” than she does a day without living in irrational fear.

Being hysterical about something as Greta Thunberg is precludes her from being “scientific,” plain and simple.

And for those who don’t know the Congresswoman making those ridiculous claims about these scared children knowing the “science, Katherine Anne Castor, born August 20, 1966, is a Democrat serving as the U.S. Representative for Florida’s 14th congressional district, who holds a bachelor’s degree in political science from Emory University (1988) and a J.D. from Florida State University College of Law (1991).

And as to this asinine statement by Democrat Katherine Anne Castor that “We’re at the point where an entire generation has grown up in the climate crisis,” that is pure balderdash as we can clearly see if we aren’t hysterical like her and Greta Thunberg by doing a bit of research into technical articles like “History of the greenhouse effect and global warming” by S.M. Enzler MSc where we learn as follows with respect to carbon dioxide, to wit:

Svante Arrhenius (1859-1927) was a Swedish scientist that was the first to claim in 1896 that fossil fuel combustion may eventually result in enhanced global warming.

end quotes

Ah, 1896, yes, that would be one hundred twenty-three (123) years ago now, so it is hardly recent, and all of us alive today have been living with this “greenhouse gas” theory of Arrhenius all our lives without it troubling us, because it is merely a theory which in the intervening 123 years has been shown to be seriously flawed, although Greta Thunberg and Democrat Katherine Anne Castor are totally unaware of that, being scared out of their minds as they are by chimeras.

What Arrhenius actually found was that the average surface temperature of the earth is about 15C because of the infrared absorption capacity of water vapor and carbon dioxide, which is called the natural greenhouse effect.

In other words, carbon dioxide exists in the earth’s atmosphere because nature itself put it there for its own reasons.

And notice water vapor included there as a greenhouse gas.

The real science, as opposed to the bogus science Greta Thunberg and the Democrats are peddling, has water vapor as a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

So why is that science being excluded by the Democrats and Greta Thunberg?

And as to these scare tactics Greta Thunberg and the Democrats are employing here with respect to the sky is falling and the world is going to come to an end and deprive Greta Thunberg of her future, I have been living with that crap all my life and after 60+ years of hearing about the world is going to end, I’m sick of it, which takes us back once again to that technical article for some necessary background history on this hysteria mongering by the Democrats, as follows:

In the late 1950’s and early 1960’s Charles Keeling used the most modern technologies available to produce concentration curves for atmospheric CO2 in Antarctica and Mauna Loa.

These curves have become one of the major icons of global warming.

The curves showed a downward trend of global annual temperature from the 1940’s to the 1970’s.

At the same time ocean sediment research showed that there had been no less than 32 cold-warm cycles in the last 2.5 million years, rather than only 4.

Therefore, fear began to develop that a new ice age might be near.

The media and many scientists ignored scientific data of the 1950’s and 1960’s in favor of global cooling.

In the 1980’s, finally, the global annual mean temperature curve started to rise.

People began to question the theory of an upcoming new ice age.

end quotes

It is not science we are being sold here by Greta Thunberg and the Democrats, people.

So ask yourself if you have children or grandchildren – why should you tolerate the Democrats lying to them and scaring them to score some cheap political points at their expense?

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 14, 2019 at 10:07 pm

Paul Plante says:

Sorin, one of the reasons I generally stay out of these discussions is because they are usually stupid, with hysteria on one side, and total denial of all reality on the other.

Yours above would run towards the hysterical, no offense intended, of course.

As to the topic at hand, it is not my argument that dumping all that co2 and/or methane in the atmosphere is not causing climate change.

The real “science,” not the “science” of Greta Thunberg is what says CO2 is not causing climate change, and given that I am an engineer, I go with the real science, not the science of hysteria.

And real science is not the possession of one person like Greta Thunberg – real science is available to everyone, so the science I rely on is as accessible to you as it is to me.

So that you might understand what an engineer is, versus a scientist, the practice of the profession of engineering is defined as performing professional services wherein the safeguarding of life, health and property is concerned, when such service or work requires the application of engineering principles and data.

Since engineers like myself are supposed to safeguard life, health and property, Sorin, we are not supposed to be running around like chickens with our heads cut off yelling the sky is falling, nor are we supposed to be gulled by the ravings of a frightened 16-year old Swedish girl who wants us all to panic because she feels fear every day.

So no, Sorin, I don’t “have a hatred for the Democrats”, whatever that means, although I would agree with you based on evidence and long years of experience that whatever the Democrats are saying or doing is wrong, but that is another subject for a different thread.

And engineering principles, Sorin, are not theories like this greenhouse gas model, which has many flaws due to the fact that there are too many variables for it to handle.

Engineering principles are based on natural laws and are fundamental truths that serve as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

So when applying engineering principle here, one looks at the fact that on earth, as opposed to Venus, our air, the general name for the mixture of gases that makes up the Earth’s atmosphere, is primarily nitrogen (78 percent), with oxygen (21 percent), water vapor (variable), argon (0.9 percent), carbon dioxide (0.04 percent), and many trace gases, as well as dust, pollen, and spores.

Notice how small a percentage of our air carbon dioxide really is.

And another engineering principle or natural law is that at standard temperature and pressure, the density of carbon dioxide is around 1.98 kg/m3, or about 1.67 times that of air, so that it is a dense gas, which means it does not rise and form a greenhouse layer in our upper air as the greenhouse gas model being pushed by Greta Thunberg and the Democrats, who are in the game for POWER, Sorin, and domination over us, if you didn’t already know that, requires it to.

So the thing with me, which may be different from you, is that I don’t like getting lied to and I don’t like seeing children being scared by lies.

And since I am an engineer, Sorin, who worked in the field of air pollution control yes, I am aware that the combustion products of burning gas are carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides and particulate matter, while the combustion products of burning coal include carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and sulfur trioxide, while the combustion products of diesel are carbon dioxide and water vapor.

I am also aware that burning wood, or turf, or buffalo chips or any other organic matter also releases carbon dioxide into the air.

So if we want to be totally carbon free, then nothing can be burned to give us heat, which means it has to come from somewhere else, doesn’t it?

And how is that heat then supposed to get to us who now live out in the countryside?

As for me, Sorin, I’m not sitting around waiting for all you people out there running around like chickens with your heads cut off waiting for somebody to do something.

My personal carbon footprint is now very low, and very little do I have to rely on your grid to keep me alive, because your grid is becoming more and more unreliable.

As to nuclear, Sorin, let me leave you with this:

“Drought could force nuke-plant shutdowns”

By MITCH WEISS, Associated Press

Last updated: 12:52 p.m., Wednesday, January 23, 2008

LAKE NORMAN, N.C. — Nuclear reactors across the Southeast could be forced to throttle back or temporarily shut down later this year because drought is drying up the rivers and lakes that supply power plants with the awesome amounts of cooling water they need to operate.

“Water is the nuclear industry’s Achilles’ heel,” said Jim Warren, executive director of N.C. Waste Awareness and Reduction Network, an environmental group critical of nuclear power.

“You need a lot of water to operate nuclear plants.”

He added: “This is becoming a crisis.”

All but two are built on the shores of lakes and rivers and rely on submerged intake pipes to draw billions of gallons of water for use in cooling and condensing steam after it has turned the plants’ turbines.

At some plants — those with tall, Three Mile Island-style cooling towers — a lot of the water travels up the tower and is lost to evaporation.

Progress spokeswoman Julie Hahn said the Harris reactor, for example, sucks up 33 million gallons a day, with 17 million gallons lost to evaporation via its big cooling towers.

end quotes

When you have solved that cooling problem, Sorin, get back to me and we’ll talk further about nuclear.

In the meantime, have yourself a wonderful day, and Sorin, keep in mind that the average human like yourself or Greta Thunberg or AOC exhales about 2.3 pounds of carbon dioxide on an average day, and the exact quantity depends on a person’s activity level, so that a hysterical person chanting “hey, hey, ho, ho, climate change has got to go” over and over like Greta Thunberg the other day with all her friends can put out up to eight times as much CO2 as a calm person like myself, and that carbon dioxide is as much a “greenhouse gas” as is the carbon dioxide produces by burning wood or gas or diesel.

Thus, all of these politicians running their mouths at high speed telling us the untruth that the world is going to come to an end in ten years if we don’t enact the Green New Deal right now are themselves contributing greatly to climate change, assuming their model is correct that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, which shows some of the ignorance and hypocrisy and scientific voodoo at play here from those who want us to be scared so we are easier to manipulate, which takes us to Greta’s carbon fiber sailboat.

Carbon fiber is manufactured by refining oil to obtain acrylonitrile and then spinning this acrylonitrile and baking the spun yarn.

Due to the high baking temperature of 1000℃ or more, 20 tons of CO2 are emitted to manufacture 1 ton of carbon fiber.

So Greta’s crossing of the Atlantic in a high-tech, carbon fiber sailboat was hardly emission-free as we are being told by the media.

Why do you think they lie to us, Sorin?

Any guesses?

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 15, 2019 at 12:48 pm

Paul Plante says :

And I would note that what I really said was that the latter part of Sorin’s post above ran towards the hysterical when he posted as follows:

“What do you propose we do when we can’t find any more shit to burn?”

“How are your grandchildren going to get around?”


“To clarify my position. I think we should put massive resources into refining solar, wind, wave energy production, battery storage, electric vehicles, advanced nuclear reactors, hopefully fusion.”

end quotes

For the record, my grandchildren get around by using the two feet they were born with to propel them around, which is how I got along for many years of my own life when I didn’t own the extra burden of a car.

But now that school is back in session up this way, anyway, each morning, you see a seemingly endless convoy of Lincoln and Cadillac and GMC and Mercedes-Benz and BMW SUV’s and assorted sedans and coupes with a mommy or daddy in them ferrying little Johnny or little Suzy to school, creeping along in the traffic jam spewing out the deadly carbon dioxide that those same little children are so upset by as they walk out of school to stand and holler over and over along with Greta and AOC, “hey, hey, ho, ho, climate change has got to go,” which is the epitome of hypocrisy.

If those children really cared about the “environment” and carbon dioxide, they would tell mommy to leave the Lexus home, and they would walk to school, or take the bus.

As to how people will get along come the day there is no more **** to burn, who knows, because to date, it hasn’t happened yet, and I suspect that outside of a few places here in America, for many people, they won ‘t even know the difference, not being addicted in the first place to burning fossil fuel to keep them alive.

I was in Viet Nam in 1969, and where I was, there were no motorized vehicles, at all, nor was there electricity, and yet those people were getting along fine, by their standards, living as they had for centuries, given that the history of Viet Nam goes back to 2879 B.C.

And Rome, one of the truly great civilizations on earth began its history on April 21, 753 BC, long before internal combustion engines and V-8 powered trucks to haul your boat around with, and they built many engineering wonders without the aid of motorized equipment.

Julius Caesar in Gaul and in his other campaigns was moving his legions around quite rapidly on foot over 2,000 years ago.

And that is just a snapshot.

Then we have the Seima-Turbino phenomenon which dates from 2100 BCE to 1900 BCE, the homeland of is considered to be the Altai Mountains.

What makes that unique is that these people were in possession of advanced metal working technology, and two-wheeled chariots.

So by bothering to come out of our comfort zone to study a bit of history, we can plainly see that humans have gotten along just fine without the things we think are absolutely necessary today to sustain life, like the V-8 powered truck, and the big boat, etc. etc. etc.

When I was young, the old woman at the farm up the road where I worked was born after the civil war and had lived a good portion of her life without anything we consider essential to life today, and she was in her nineties when I knew her.

So, life without a BMW and a big boat with twin V-8 power used to be possible, even if it isn’t, anymore.

As to nuclear power, the first plant commissioned was on June 26, 1954, at Obninsk, Russia, when nuclear power plant APS-1 with a net electrical output of 5 MW was connected to the power grid, the world’s first nuclear power plant that generated electricity for commercial use, which is sixty-five (65) years ago now.

So, nuclear power is hardly a new concept, and by this time, there are no mysteries about nuclear power left, so what exactly is it that we are going to pour these massive resources into, outside of graft and corruption?

What is it about nuclear that we do not understand today, besides exactly nothing?

And it is not only a matter of electrical generation, it is also a matter of distribution, and what is known as Joule Heating, or “I squared R” losses.

Joule heating, also known as Ohmic heating and resistive heating, is the process by which the passage of an electric current through a conductor produces heat, and Joule heating affects the whole electric conductor, which means the farther away the source is, the greater the losses, and that heat produced goes into the atmosphere, because heat is energy.

And this has all been known now for several centuries, which is an indication of just how tedious these discussions have become today, where people are acting like we are just discovering what people have known for a long time already.

James Prescott Joule first published in December 1840, an abstract in the Proceedings of the Royal Society, suggesting that heat could be generated by an electrical current.

That was 179 years ago now.

Joule immersed a length of wire in a fixed mass of water and measured the temperature rise due to a known current flowing through the wire for a 30 minute period.

By varying the current and the length of the wire he deduced that the heat produced was proportional to the square of the current multiplied by the electrical resistance of the immersed wire, which is high school physics today, or even grade school physics, which raises the existential question of how people in this country today have become so pitifully stupid and ignorant.

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Re: Just musings, is all

Post by thelivyjr » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:40 p

THE CAPE CHARLES MIRROR September 15, 2019 at 5:48 pm

Paul Plante says :

And thank you to the Cape Charles Mirror once again for hosting this discussion, which lets an old disabled, certified poor person like myself have as equal access as do the well-to-do yacht owners who proliferate in the balmy clime of Cape Charles, Virginia (yes, I drove through one time with my windows down just to experience it first-hand, and I thought it was lovely, far better in fact than even San Diego or Burbank, California, or Marseilles, France, for that matter), and to Mr. Otton for bringing us back to the reality that a small group of people, at best 32% of the American people, called the Democrats are unilaterally attempting to enact an insane policy known as the “GREEN NEW DEAL (see, Cape Charles Mirror 7 April 2019 http://www.capecharlesmirror.com/news/g ... ent-138950 ) that will cause chaos in this country that will greatly impact the lives of the 68% of us who are not Democrats and who will be harmed by this while being denied a voice at the table, which brings us American citizens who care about due process of law, which is to say, citizenship as opposed to being a cud-chewing consumer as so many Americans have become, to this issue of the Democrats in Congress, and here we are talking directly about this AOC, inviting this young Swedish girl who is spouting nonsense to appear before something called the House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis, a select committee established in the 116th United States Congress in 2019 when Democrats regained the majority of the United States House of Representatives chaired by Congresswoman Kathy Castor of Florida, without someone standing there right beside her to question her “science” and to then rebut it, as it should be, given that it is nothing more than ignorant rubbish, and I say that as an American citizen who openly resents this spoiled and willful rich and manipulative Swedish teen-ager coming over here to tell me, “You are not mature enough to tell it like it is, even that burden, you leave to us children,” which is ignorant horse****, although not to the Democrats who are exploiting this girl to push their “green new deal” agenda in this upcoming presidential race, by having poor little Greta Thunberg come on camera to chide us all for being so morally irresponsible, which will have the Democrats on the panel openly weeping and possibly tearing at their clothes while flagellating themselves with chains to expiate their sins, which they will then project onto the rest of us, as well, while telling us to our faces as she did at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland this year, when she told government and business leaders:

“I want you to panic.”

“I want you to feel the fear I feel every day.”

end quotes

As to the existence of that particular committee, in November and December of 2018, youth climate activists with the Sunrise Movement pushed House Democrats to form a select committee with the mandate to draft “Green New Deal” legislation, working with incoming freshman Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who proposed language for the committee’s authorization.

As can be seen, that was entirely one-sided, with no input from those of us who are not in favor of the Green New Deal for legitimate reasons the Democrats are keeping out of the record.

As to keeping us out of the discussion, which is very un-democratic, a hallmark of the Democrats, it is only necessary to go to their website https://climatecrisis.house.gov/ where they make it incandescently clear (The science is in. We know the cause. Burning fossil fuels and destroying tropical forests are driving the climate crisis.) that thank you very much, the discussion is over, we have all the facts and we have all of what we need to know, so go back home and STFU if you don’t agree with the green new deal, which makes you an obstructionist trying to steal the future of people like Greta Thunberg.

Which raises the existential question of why are the Democrats bringing this girl over from Sweden to try and turn our children and grandchildren against us by accusing us of stealing their futures because we are all a bunch of self-centered gluttons and wastrels, a characterization I frankly resent and find extremely insulting as an American citizen, which has me standing up in here to protest this Swedish trouble-maker appearing before our Congress without equal time for rebuttal being offered on behalf of the American people themselves, who are quite obviously being left out of the discussion by the Democrats.

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